Family -- There for Bing?

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DEAN posted 01/12/03 05:09 AM Central Time (US)     No E-mail no email address given

I've thought long and hard about introducing this subject but it seems to me that if it isn't possible to criticise anything or anyone involved in this gathering of friends and beginning a serious discussion without quarrelling then all we have is a starry eyed group on the lookout for miles of congratulatory pap. So here goes---.

I haven't read Kathryn Crosby's book. I don't intend to. Friends of mine who have bought the book tell me that it contains little about Bing and a great deal about its author and heroine. This is par for the course where Mrs Crosby is concerned.

She and her children have been appointed as honorary members of our various Bing supporting clubs; why? Where were these people when Bing was being shot at from all directions? Did Kathryn and her sons come out fighting and telling the world that Bing had been an extremely good father and husband where they were concerned? They did not!

Only Phillip from the old family raised his head to defend his father. Kathryn and her sons had other fish to fry. But when Bing infrequently makes a brief reappearance in the limelight, who is in there with a new book and a gracious smile and a flurry of self promotion? Guess who. Well. at least she turned up at the recent event in New York which is more than you can say for the children.

Like many other Bing fans I was shocked at the way Bing's possessions were thrown out for a quick sale almost as soon as he was gone and the ensuing silence while his reputation was being savaged and while, incidentally, the Sinatra family were busy promoting and supporting the memory of a far less talented and worthwhile individual.

Honorary members? There are people on this board and many others who have dedicated much of their time to Bing's memory who deserve that honour much more and few people who deserve it less than the current recipients.

Some people will think that this posting is inappropriate for this site. It may well be, but I felt I had to say it. If the other posters believe that I ought to leave the board and say so here I will comply with their wishes. I hope I haven't spoiled anyone's enjoyment of this board by raising this subject. It would be the last thing I wanted.

DEAN
Lars posted 01/12/03 06:42 AM Central Time (US)    E-mail contact the author directly
Dean!
To even suggest something negative about Kathryn Crosby - or her offsprings - I'm sure will turn many of the regular posters at the board mad at the very least. (Let's get out the tar and feathers....) But I've asked myself the same questions myself - so I agree with you. And I can't either remember Kathryn doing much (if anything) if there wasn't anything in it for herself - like promoting a book. I'm sure she can turn on the charm whenever she wants to - but if she's actually done anything for Bing's memory (not her own) is something entirely different. Dean, you might very well have to change your name once again...

Not that long ago I read the book STOMP OFF, LET'S GO - THE STORY OF BOB CROSBY'S BOB CATS and BG BAND by John Chilton. It contained some interesting quotes from Bob on the subject of Bing's second wife. On page 272 it says; "The problem of being Bing's brother had long been surmounted by the time of Bing's death in 1977. The brothers were not in close rapport during the last decade of Bing's life, there was no enimity, but Bob could never avoid feeling hurt when he learnt, quite often, that Bing had passed through San Diego without bothering to call. However, Bob was not at all distressed that Bing left him out of his will, "Actually I respected him for that, it was his way of saying 'You're independent, you can take care of yourself'". Bob was less than pleased with the spate of lurid revelations about Bing that have been published over the past few years, 'Seems to me it's dangerous to die if you're a celibrity', and he was psoitively furious when Bing's widow, Kathryn arranged an auction sale of her husband's personal possessions. Bob revered Bing's first wife, Dixie Lee, 'a helluva woman', but never enjoyed the same rapport with Bing's second wife. 'Bing hated phoneys, yet he married one. That woman was planning to sell my mother's family bible, but I put a stop to that. The big thing lacking in Bing's later life was friends, not just guys with whom he had a joke, but close buddies, something in his nature prevented him from expressing the affection that I'm sure he felt. He developed an immage that was really a protective device against the world, he made himself a cellophane bag from which he could view the outside, but no-one could get close to him.'
Richard Pearson posted 01/12/03 07:26 AM Central Time (US)    E-mail contact the author directly
Let me go on the record and state that I LIKE and ADMIRE Kathryn Crosby! I had the pleasure of seeing her with Bing on Broadway back in 1976 and also meeting her in the late 1980s at Bermuda Run, North Carolina at one of the Crosby Golf Tournaments. She was very gracious and kind to me and my good friend Mark Scrimger, as we were wined and dined and entertained by many celebrities at the "Clambake" which has always been a Crosby tradition at the golf tournaments. I get sick and tired of hearing people criticize the later Crosby Golf Tournaments. Especially those that NEVER attended one or even know of anyone that attended! Well my wife and I attended 3 of the Bermuda Run tournaments and we thouroughly enjoyed ourselves! We are hardly golf enthusiasts but it was a real blast seeing many entertainment and sports celebrites in the flesh who ALSO were enjoying themselves I might add! Everyone had a great time at these events and the tournaments of course in their own unique way were a TRIBUTE to Bing and his legacy. Frankly I was happy and delighted that Kathryn moved the tournament from California to NC. It gave me and other fans who lived on the East Coast the chance to come on down and enjoy the tournaments in person! What more could a fan ask for??? Let the record state that the tournaments were successful. They may have had a fraction of the TV coverage of the original golf touraments but they were first class in my opinion and succeeded in raising money for charities etc. A lot of credit goes to Kathryn for making the tournaments go as smoothly as they did. I am sure a lot of planning and hard work went into it.
Let the record also state that Kathryn made several TV appearances defending Bing's reputation when several negative books came out on Bing after his death. I think the problem was that there was much more coverage given to the authors of those books after they were published. The American public apparently loves to hear negative things about various celebrities and Bing was certainly no exception. Kathryn defended her late husband so I don't understand what else she was supposed to do. As for the auction of Bing's things which was held shortly after his death I didn't like it at the time, but I have changed my thinking on this subject. The Bing Crosby Historical Society at the time was trying to buy one of Bing's boyhood homes in Tacoma, Washington. The idea was to turn it into a museum. The reality of the situation is that Tacoma is a REMOTE location even for many Americans. The Historical Society never even came close to buying the home and even if it did it is doubtful whether they could make the museum idea fly. Many of Bing's fans have left us. Do you honestly think a Crosby museum would sustain enough of a profit to be succesful, especially in Tacoma??? Gary Giddins couldn't even get ONE Crosby fan to come at one of his book signings in Atlanta, Georgia for heaven's sake! Therefore I think the auction was not a bad idea. Perhaps a few items could have been excluded, but Kathryn did give many fans a chance to own something of Bing.And when you think about it, what is wrong with that?
What I also admire Kathryn for is her great work ethic. For me the hardest thing to do would be to star in a stage production and take it on tour! Saying one's lines over and over again and doing 7 or 8 performances a week would definitely take its toll on anyone. To add thousands of miles of travel would be a glutton for punishment! And then for Kathryn to do stagework in Russia is the icing on the cake! I think many people do NOT consider the age difference between her and Bing. Would Bing have wanted her to stay home and organize many tributes for him and make sure that every recording or TV appearance was released and re-released? I doubt it! I think he would be pleased that Kathryn has lived a full life and has worked hard at her craft(I think she is wonderful actress) and has made many gutsy decisions! Frankly I would much rather have Kathryn's 3 books on Bing rather than the usual Crosby discographies which just duplicate informtion. Kathryn's books are about REAL LIFE not about alternate takes and obscure tunes! And finally a big thank you to Kathryn for opening the Hillsborough residence to the public several times. It was most gracious of her to do so and my wife and I enjoyed our visit!
Dean I usually enjoy your messages but saying negative things about someone who you hardly know is pathetic! As for Sinatra's kids they are NOT doing it for "Ol Blue Eye's" memory. They are doing it to enrich themselves. Nancy Sinatra had the FBI arrest a good friend of mine for merely holding a Sinatra convention in Atlantic City. Fortunately most of the charges were dropped as the judge realized how ridiculous the situation was. Frank Jr. is suing another singer because his father gave the singer some musical arrangements as a gift and now Jr. wants them back! And finally on the recent movie soundtrack CD box set of Frank that was released last year, Nancy and Tina would NOT pay 20th Century Fox the royalties to use the SOUNDTRACK recording of "3 Coins In The Fountain" and instead used the STUDIO recording which most Sinatra fans already have! Again this is another subject you know nothing about, Dean. I would suggest that you return to your former merry and funny posts which I have come to enjoy. Saying negative things about a wonderful woman like Kathryn is definitely not a topic that should be discussed on the board but I hope you and other fans may have learned somthing from my post.

Cheers!

Richard
DEAN posted 01/12/03 08:48 AM Central Time (US)     No E-mail no email address given

RICHARD,
I'm grateful to you for making your defence of Kathryn and the second family without indulging in a corrosive attack on me. The lady has a formidable champion in you!

I am now and have long been in touch with people who were and are close to the first Crosby family. I am also in touch with people who have had close contacts with the second family so I'm fairly well informed about events involving both groups of people.

You may be aware of things and incidents that it would not be appropriate to discuss here but I can say that Kathryn was unpopular (to say the least) with the first Crosby family, and from what I've been told, with good reason.

Another friend of mine who tried to obtain information from Kathryn and her family over a period of years eventually gave it up and told me that they were just not interested in anything to do with Bing.

Iwas also told by a man who was very close to Bing in his later years that He'd been to one of the golf tournaments you mentioned but had found little associated with Bing there, but a great deal bearing the name of Kathryn Crosby!

Ok. I've said what I had to say and you've given me a restrained and logical reply. If the hard working people who run our magazines believe that honouring these people in this way will be good for the propogation of Bing's image in the future then it behoves me to go along with it.

But I have my doubts!

Regards,
DEAN
Richard Pearson posted 01/12/03 08:53 AM Central Time (US)    E-mail contact the author directly
As a postscript to my previous message, my wife Barbara has just reminded me why we enjoyed our visit so much to Bing's home a few years ago. Many of Bing's possesions were on display: Paintings, golf clubs and golfing gear, movie scripts, awards and of course the Oscar for Going My Way!

Obviously Kathryn did NOT sell all of Bing's things at the auction!

Again it was just a first class experience for us and since we are Bing fans it made it all the more memorable!

Richard
DEAN posted 01/12/03 09:33 AM Central Time (US)     No E-mail no email address given

LARS,
I knew I could count on you to watch my back! Thanks for the interesting stuff from Bing's brother Bob. One of the informants I referred to was invited to Bob Crosby's place and met his wife June at the same time. Quite a few things came out in their conversations that surprised me at the time.

Bing's sister Mary Rose had a few sharp things to say too.

I have only seen Kathryn on Tv but she looked so actressy and insincere that I just couldn't warm to her. Most women that I've asked over here in the UK felt the same reaction, but these are just feelings and not facts.
Time will tell!

Cheers,
DEAN
Tom Degan posted 01/12/03 09:42 AM Central Time (US)    E-mail contact the author directly
Dean, Your topic raises some interesting questions and what better forum to bring them out into the open? I think your hesitancy in airing them is unfounded. After all this is a democracy so what the hell. As long as one's thoughts are not slanderous or vulgar, this is the perfect sight. While I can't claim to be an expert on this topic I can recall very clearly Bing's daughter Mary defending her dad quite vigorously against the allegations in Gary's sick book. "In all our years together, my father only hit me once and, believe me, I deserved it"! We should never be afraid to post an potentially controversial topic on this sight. Debate stirs the soul of a democracy. Hey, that's not bad!!
Cheers!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
DEAN posted 01/12/03 10:40 AM Central Time (US)     No E-mail no email address given

Thanks TOM,
For your thoughts on the subject. A lot of people have gotten away with some shabby behavior over the years and were never questioned about it. Sometimes too they were praised while those who worked hard for the cause didn't even receive a word of thanks.

It's easy to swan around making money and accepting plaudits that rightly belong to others who have put in the time and effort for no reward, but we ought not to encourage or allow it.

Your comment on Bing's daughter was interesting. I'm glad someone put in a small voice for Bing. All we heard over here was the ranting of Bing's accusers, but not so much as a squeak in the press or on Tv in his defence from those who owed him the most. That's how I see it.

Cheers,
DEAN
David Weaver posted 01/12/03 12:01 PM Central Time (US)    E-mail contact the author directly
RE SINATRAS AND MONEY: Richard, in mid-90s I worked for PBS TV station in Columbus, OH, and a man donated a photo to our annual auction of Frank Sinatra. It was a snapshot of Frank and several other members of Dorsey band when they all performed at a ballroom in Columbus in early 1940s. We contacted Sinatra's folks to ask if Frank (still performing at that point), would autograph it. Reply came back that not only would he NOT autograph it (Mr. Sinatra does not sign autographs, we were told, even for charity), but they said the picture COULD NOT be auctioned off, as it was an "image of Frank Sinatra, and is therefore owned by him." Then, to top it off, they requested that the photo be sent to THEM, for inclusion in memorabilia associated with Frank that they said would one day be housed in a musuem.

The royalties, copyright, and ownership issues is one of the big bears in the world of entertainment. Carol Burnett once told Larry King a major reason why variety shows like hers died and will not come back is the huge fees music publishers want to perform their songs on TV. Again, going back to my experience in Columbus for PBS, we did a special on the OSU Marching Band. There was a 45-second segment from a halftime show paying tribute to Disney, with the band playing "When You Wish Upon a Star." Disney wanted $60,000 (SIXTY-THOUSAND!!!) for rights to the song. Needless to say, the Disney tribute was dropped from the show.

Re personal possessions of a star like Bing, I think it is better for someone who loves and admires him to have a chance to own something belonging to or associated with him, versus it collecting dust in a warehouse somewhere. Or at least give the things to a museum, where fans can visit and enjoy them over and over again.

I too, admire Kathryn Crosby, and wish her and her new book much success!
Ben Weaver posted 01/12/03 12:51 PM Central Time (US)    E-mail contact the author directly
As I see it, Kathryn and Bing enjoyed a happy 20 year marriage and to-gether formed a successful family. They always seemed very happy and devoted to each other. For this I am grateful to Kathryn. Other celebrities seem to have such a wretched few final years. Groucho Marx is a good example. Jacqueline Kennedy didn't seem particularly happy either in her final years.
I don't think Bing intended that Kathryn would act as his full time Publicity Agent after his passing. Instead I think Bing wanted Kathryn to live her life enjoying her own interests and joys. She has been devoted to her children.
I also think that a difficulty that Kathryn had was that her early lifes experiences didn't equate to Bing's. She had no appreciation for the long years of struggle that Bing experienced in the early years of his career. Also the big differance in age was a factor.
I too, have met Kathryn at the Hillsborough Mansion tour. She was most gracious to all who met her. Anyone wanting a photograph taken with her was given one. She was not rushed and had time to chat. I think the role Kathryn is playing is most appropriate. Its up to us, Bing's fans, to do the promoting.
Some fans seem to get bent way out of shape if a book she may write is not exactly as they want it. I've even read critical things about Gary Giddins book. Too long. Too much detail. Not enough photos. Not enough about 'Bing the man'. Where's the next volume? He's taking too long. On and on it goes.
Kathryn,I am sure, will be at the Crosby Centenial Celebrations in May at Gonzaga and will be happy to see all who come.

Harley posted 01/12/03 01:57 PM Central Time (US)     No E-mail no email address given
Lars, I am surprised to learn of the existence of a book about Bob Crosby’s big and small bands. Thanks for the quotes from Bob, though I think I’ll stay out of this particular controversy. I am curious as to whether the book you mention contains any information about Connie Boswell, which can be a bit hard to come by. While Connie was never a full time band singer, she recorded many of her most thrilling sides with Bob Crosby’s Orchestra and Bob Cats, including Ah! So Pure (Martha), You Can Call It Swing, Gypsy Love Song, and of course Yes, Indeed!, one of her great duets with Bing.
Lars posted 01/12/03 02:07 PM Central Time (US)    E-mail contact the author directly
Harley, I was surprised when I found the book too - and in a shop selling old comics at that. It usually pays to examine any small shop - at least in the long run. This book was published in 1983 by Jazz Book Service, London. Which reminds me that it was in 1983 at a Jazzfestival that I catched Bob Crosby and his band - with many of the original members. Bob sang "Pennies from heaven". Mel Tormé also gave us a great show before Bob enetered the stage...
But no, I can't remember Connee Boswell being mentioned at all. Bing is only mentioned in passing here and there. The first half of the book is devoted to the history of the band until WWII. And the last half has a chapter each about the most memorable and important bandmembers (Edie Miller, Gil Rodin, Ray Bauduc, Bob Haggart, Nappy Lamare, Billy Butterfield, Matty Matlock, Irving Fazola, Yank Lawson and of course Bob Crosby). Not the greatsest of books, but still interesting (and I read it in one single day - or a very late evening). The author seems to have written a bunch of other jazzoriented books; "Who's who of jazz", "Billie's blues", Teach yourself jazz", McKinney's Music", "A jazz nursery" and "Louis - The Louis Armstrong story".

Bing was mentioned a couple of times. The interviews with the various bandmembers are conclusive. While Bing always was pleasent and joked when they met him - they never felt they knew him. One of the bandmembers also recalled that Bing volountered favours at different times and helped some indivudals who run into to trouble. But only if he wasn't asked for help... I.e. Bing didn't want to be used and was very sensitive if he suspected something in that direction. Unfortunately if Connee was mentioned at all in the book it must only have been in passing - as a line-up for a specific recording date.
Lee posted 01/13/03 09:06 AM Central Time (US)    E-mail contact the author directly
Dean and I occasionally disagree with each other but on this subject I support his view. Kathryn does seem to only come out for Bing when it's to her benefit. As money grubbing as the Sinatra clan has been described here, I wish the Crosby clan were just 1/2 as interested in Bing's legacy and recordings, movies and TV shows being put out there for commercial release. So many of his TV shows could be available if someone would only take an interest. I don't know Kathryn nor anyone in the Crosby family but from an outsider's point of view, she and her kids don't seem to care a hoot about Bing's commercial releases. Dean, we speak as one here.
Sally posted 01/20/03 10:37 AM Central Time (US)    E-mail contact the author directly
As Dean did when he brought up this topic, I have thought long and hard about whether I want to reply. I know nothing I say will ever convince certain of you that Kathryn is less than evil incarnate, and nothing you say will ever convince me that she is anything less than a very strong, intelligent, funny, educated, talented woman, more than worthy of my respect. However, there were certain inaccuracies in some of the posts that I feel compelled to address.

It is ABSOLUTELY NOT true that Kathryn never defended Bing after Gary C.'s book came out, nor is it true that Phillip and Mary Frances are the only ones who ever defended him as a father. I think this is the third time that I have posted this particular fact, but, when Gary's book came out, Kathryn made the rounds of the talk shows saying that Gary's book was wrong and that Bing never hit her children and was a great father. She had Gary's ex-wife, Barbara, with her to lend credibility to her remarks. Before Bing died, she and Bing were on the Stanley Seigel show (a NYC talk show) and Stanley asked Bing if Bing thought it had been hard on his kids having such a famous father. Kathryn went nuts on him (very politely) and said that Bing was a wonderful father. After Bing died, but long before Gary's book came out, Kathryn was on the show again and Stanely brought up the last time she had been on. He said something about having upset her and she said "You pushed my buttons, Stanley, saying it is difficult being the child of a Great man." She went on to say how lucky the kids were to have Bing as a Dad. All of these are shows that I saw with my own two eyes. Further, EVERY TIME she has been interviewed since Gary's book, interviewers have asked her about Gary's allegations and she has said repeatedly that they were not true and that he was wonderful father.

You may recall that at Malcolm MacFarland's request, Kathryn helped publicize a BBC program about Bing. She went to England on "her way to Russia." Anyone with the rudimentary understandings of geography knows that London is not "on the way" from SanFrancisco to Russia. Nevertheless, she appeared on a morning talk show. According to Malcolm MacFarland (his write up of Kathryn's visit appears on this site), the talk show host asked Kathryn, for the millionth time, about Bing as a father. Of course she defended him. Then, according to Mr. MacFarland, the show's host kept trying to turn the conversation to Kathryn's performances in Russia, and KATHRYN kept turning it back to Bing and the special about him.

While in England she gave an interview to HELLO magazine. I went through a considerable amount of trouble and money to obtain a copy of it. The ENTIRE interview has to do with BING and, of course, the interviewer focused on him as a father. He asked about Gary's accusations about Bing hitting him and his brothers with a studded belt and asked if Kathryn ever witnessed anything like that. She said "No, it wasn't possible. Bing was very gentle." She goes on to say that Gary called her after he had sobered up and asked her what happened between him and his father and she said "I could honestly answer that even when he was drunk he was always perfectly respectful with his father." She said "I felt very sad when the book came out. Nelson Doubleday, the publisher, said to me 'Kathryn, he doesn't say anything bad about you.' About me! I said 'Mr. Doubleday, I don't want him to say bad things about is mother!' How dare he? And his father, who only wanted the best for him. Too bad his father wasn't an axe murderer or something."

I don't know what more you would have her do on this front. Should she sue someone? I am sure she looked into it and any competent lawyer would have told her that it is nearly impossible to prove libel against a celebrity. You have to prove not only that the statement is a lie, but that the person who wrote it knew it was a lie and printed it "with reckless disregard for the truth." Given that it was Bing's son writing about Bing as a father, she was in no position to prove that. Even with "The Hollow Man," etc., those writers could back up their statements with interviews. Bing himself made statements about not being a good father to his first four. There is NO way she could prove "reckless disregard for the truth," and further, a suit against Gary or the Hollow Man authors would only give all of those statements more publicity.

She has also always defended Dixie. When asked about Dixie's drinking, I have heard Kathryn say repeatedly that all she knows about Dixie is what Bing said and he always said she was an angel. She never, ever discusses her in any bad light. Even the four older boys, she never says anything bad about them.

As an aside, someone on this board noted that people had always said how charming Dixie was. I know nothing about Dixie other than the few things I've read, but I can tell you, I grew up with an alcoholic mother. She was not so charming. That's not to say I didn't absolutely adore her and appreciate the person she could have been, but she was definitely NOT charming when drunk, which as with Dixie (or so I have read) was most of the time, and she made our family's life a living hell.

All of the allegations of Bing's womanizing are from the time when he was married to Dixie, not Kathryn. Kathryn even defends him about that. She has said that she and Dixie were the only people who knew him and she knows he was absolutely devoted to both her and Dixie.

If I have one criticism of Kathryn, and who am I to criticize her, I don't even know her, it is that her defense of Bing has bordered on the obsessive. She didn't go to her children's weddings each because she felt that they had slighted their father's image in some way--Mary Frances lived with a man not long after Bing died and not long after he told Barbara Walters he would disown any of his kids who did that, and Harry and/or Nathaniel continued to play in the ATandT tournie after Kathryn felt ATandT treated Bing badly. By the way, I am glad she pulled his name from that tournie. I am sick of people selling out names for corporate sponsorship--Continental Airlines Arena, Enron Field, SAFECO field--how about the ATandT Royal Albert Hall?

As for her books. I am glad they have a lot of her in them. I like her. She is very funny and interesting. She continually makes fun of herself in the books and puts Bing completely on a pedestal. You don't want to read them? Fine, but you are missing out on a side of Bing you will otherwise never know.

From all accounts, she and Bing were absolutely devoted to each other. You think it doesn't hurt her when people say bad things about him? Think again. Also, by continually bad mouthing her, you are in fact saying that Bing was devoted to a woman who dropped him as soon as he died. Yes, she went on with her life, but she has ALWAYS supported, promoted and defendend him. Maybe she doesn't do enough with his music and movies, but I think his lack of popularity has more to do with people just remembering him from Christmas specials and thinking he was square, Gary C's book and other bad PR. I am sure if the market were there, Kathryn would promote him. Also, she has always said that she knew him as a man and husband, not as a movie star or singer. Therefore, she doesn't have the background to promote all of that.

So, go on, put her down, hate her, etc, but don't ever say she never defended Bing.

Sally
DEAN posted 01/21/03 09:12 AM Central Time (US)     No E-mail no email address given

CARMELA, JIM and Others,
That I was mistaken in my efforts to raise these questions in this forum I freely admit. I doubt if this is the place for the deeper and darker aspects of the Crosby legend to be discussed. This should be where we fans get together and share our enjoyment of Bing and his work. In a sense we are building a high wall around us to keep out the worst aspects of the everyday world.

By introducing topics that anger and upset people I have upset the applecart. It won't happen again.

I have posted privately to Sally to put forward the basic reasons for my dislike of Mrs Crosby. It would have been wrong for me to print them here; and even if I had, a great many of you would not accept or believe them.

Someone once said that if you had a choice between the truth and the legend then you should always print the legend!

If it makes everybody happy let's do that.

DEAN
DEAN posted 01/21/03 01:42 PM Central Time (US)     No E-mail no email address given

LARS,
Sometimes differences become very small and unimportant when a man senses that the end is in sight and many slights and hurts are smoothed over.

I hope that's an intelligible answer to the point I think you were making, but I'm getting old and I'm not so quick on the uptake as I once kid myself that I was.

Sherlock.(A man's Gotta do what a man's gotta do!)
Carmela posted 01/21/03 08:04 PM Central Time (US)     No E-mail no email address given
DEAN, Although some of us don't agree with you about Kathryn don't mean you should stop speaking your mind. I admire you for being honest. A trait many of you Brits have.Hey! I sometimes post things here that upset some people. We are all united here in Bing and that's whats important!
Lars posted 01/22/03 02:33 AM Central Time (US)    E-mail contact the author directly
There's never anything wrong with a friendly discussion. If we all were of the same mind it wouldn't be any discussions at all. It's always important to make a distinction between the issue and the person behind it.

Dean, if I meant anything at all (I think I did) it was more the last passage " a writer must write of which he knows" than the former "mistake-part". And I agree with you - both now and then. You and others have said what we wanted and it's no point to continue at this point. As long as you keep your always amusing posts coming. They are always a joy to read. Even though I don't agree with you all the time. On the other hand there are even times when I don't agree with myself.
Lars posted 01/22/03 02:47 AM Central Time (US)    E-mail contact the author directly
Carmela;
Re an earlier posting you made. I'm not sure I thought you were mad at me or not - even if I might have misunderstood or misread what you wrote. I didn't even think about it that way until you mentioned it. But as I said in the posting above, it's important to NOT mix up the feelings about the issue and the person making the point. Which I try not to do - and mostly I succeed. Even if I might not have expressed myself in a way that makes it clear to the readers. And at this board I feel I'm among friends as we share the love for the talent of the same man. It's always interesting to hear or read the views of others - even if I disagree. I hope nobody will hesitate to write anything about Bing that they might have on their mind just because it might be unpopular. I think that is what makes this sight so much alive ( at times).
David Robbins posted 02/10/03 02:17 PM Central Time (US)    E-mail contact the author directly
It seems like I always stumble across these conversations after they've burned themselves out. It's been fascinating reading. I can't ever remember seeing Mrs. Crosby interviewed when she didn't defend Bing. It's been twenty years since Gary Crosby published his book and she has been defending Bing ever since. A couple of people seem to object to Mrs. Crosby because 'there's no people like show people.' She is a 'show people', but she seems like a nice one. She was certainly charming at the Hofstra conference. She was very approachable and smart and funny. Her books should be about her. She's had a remarkable life and I feel lucky she is sharing it. Her perspective is personal. It's not the meticulously researched biography of Bing Crosby. Gary Giddins is providing that. Her story is, however, the meticulously lived autobiography of a woman who happened to be married to Bing Crosby. I'm not quite sure I understand what is expected of her. I don't think she wrote any of her books for the money. I think she wrote them for her children and for the record. So far as the auction was concerned, it was held in 1981, four years after Bing died. I'm sure all the kids got whatever they wanted first. What's wrong with getting the unwanted stuff into the hands of fans? I don't know Mrs. Crosby but it seems she's been undeservedly roughed up. I'm thankful she kept a diary and kept a record of what must have been a extraordinary life.


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