Posted - 10/18/2008 :  11:38:44 PM    

WOW! I didn't know they married but I knew they were in a relationship a long time. Also, I thought he was very sick and passed away. Thanks for the scoop Sue! I haven't been on the What's New page in awhile.

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  12:10:43 PM    

WOW! Indeed.
Didn't realise Kathryn re-married. Always thought that she said she wouldn't re-marry.
Kathryn was at Hofstra and Gonzaga with her girl-friend.

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  12:38:07 PM    

I had read once that since the Hillsborough House is in The Crosby Family Trust, if she remarried she and her future spouse couldn't live in the house. Who knows? Even Gary Gidden's couldn't see the entire Trust documents but Mrs. Sullivan has played down this longstanding relationship, formed prior to Bing's passing from what I gathered in her first book "My Life With Bing" which features a nice picture of Dr. Sullivan, and I have often wondered why...after all she was a young widow. Still using her late husbands name, not really a "stage" name, does seem odd to me when her last name is Sullivan. Glad this is finally public after so many years.

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  1:20:33 PM    

Mr. and Mrs. Sullivan were married on October 17, 2000 in Carson City by Judge Sarah Zola at 503 Third Street...just a few days after the anniversary of Bing's death and one day before the anniversary of his burial.

One of the reasons Bing may have changed his Will and Trust (The Hillsborogh House is not owned by the family and they cannot sell it)might be related to that businrss about a one million dollar promise that the then Mrs. Crosby made and which Bing allegedly became concerned about since it was more than he had on hand. I heard once that he had to sell a number of items in order to keep this promise that came to him as a surprise....allegedly..and that is why he tied up all of his assets in a pretty ironclad Trust. Of course this is speculation, but it has interested me. Dr. Sullivan was hired by the Crosby's to help with the home schooling of the kids when they would vacation in Baja.

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  4:13:55 PM    

Thank you for that very interested insight into the post Crosby years. Personally as young as Kathryn was when Bing died I am surprised she waited 23 years to get re-married.

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  4:41:36 PM     

I think all the Bing fans were surprised to learn from the Nevada Appeal that Mrs. Crosby had remarried in 2000. Whether this admission was unavoidable (some local folks no doubt knew of the marriage) or unintentional I do not know. She certainly has every right to marry whomever she pleases, but the strange part is that she felt it necessary to keep this marriage a secret for 8 years, as well as her relationship to Dr. Sullivan a secret for much longer. I understand why she chose to keep the Crosby name, as it has more star power than the Sullivan name. She implied in the Nevada Appeal interview that she and Dr. Sullivan had been living together since 1986 in Genoa, near Carson City. This is odd considering her disapproval of her daughter for doing something similar before marrying her first husband. Her relationship with Dr. Sullivan, as Jim noted, originated when she and Bing hired him to tutor their 3 children. Dr. Sullivan was a prominent California educator. He is not a medical doctor and was not hired to medically care for Bing.

Some time after Bing's death Dr. Sullivan took charge of the Crosby Trust Fund. Kathryn's reliance on Dr. Sullivan after Bing's death led to tabloid speculation that she had an ongoing affair with him before Bing's death and even that Bing discovered the affair and so changed the conditions of the trust to deny Kathryn access to the principal. I doubt these tabloid reports, however. If Bing had discovered she was having an affair behind his back it would have been "aloha on the steel guitar." Instead, they continued to perform together to the very end. More likely Bing modified the trust fund to prevent Kathryn from squandering all the Crosby fortune after his death. He obviously did not trust her business sense, whose inadequacies were made apparent by her decision to withdraw Bing's name from the golf tournament he founded. If he had changed the trust out of suspicion of a secret relationship with Dr. Sullivan, I'm sure he would have also made it impossible for Sullivan to become its trustee.

Mrs. Crosby's second husband goes by the legal name of M.W. Sullivan. I presume the "W" stands for "William" and that is where the "Bill" comes from. It appears he has written books on chess. His most recent book was published in paperback in 1999, Second Chance: If Only I Had It All to Do Over Again, Knowing What I Know Now by M. W. Sullivan (Author), Kathryn Crosby (Illustrator). Has anyone read the book? If so, can you post a review here? The cover of the book is posted below and the artwork, I presume, was done by Mrs. Crosby-Sullivan.

Second Chance front cover

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  5:04:30 PM    

Sullivan's first name is Maurice. It is of course speculation as to why Bing changed his Trust within a matter of months of his passing and he was away from home a great deal in the later years as we know. The relationship that developed into a marriage extends back for many years prior to Bing's passing as Steven puts it. I find it remarkable that Kathryn's "fans" are "surprised" of this relationship, or at least the marriage. She worked and pushed hard to get Sullivan connected with the Trust and I know he is on the Board, but I didn't know he "took charge" of the Trust as that would be surprising. But even as a trustee, his hands are tied it would seem. All of the money that would have gone to the boys from the first marriage is just sitting there I assume and I have often hoped or at least wondered if Bing's Grandchildren from the first family would have or have benefited from the Trust. From what I am told, they have not. So I guess its no longer Mrs. Crosby since her stage name was Grant, her maiden name Grandstaff, and she is now a Sullivan...oh well, at least the guyis Irish. Still, its odd she has used Bing's name to sell tickets to her shows since Kathyrn Sullivan, the former widow of Bing Crosby, wouldn't play well. It doesn't play really well now anyway as it is.

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  5:28:42 PM    

Since Bing obviously wanted to keep part of his life out of the show business limelight and glare, I doubt that it would bother him that Kathryn didn't flaunt her engagement or eventual remarriage to Sully. As for her appearing as Kathryn Crosby in her shows, to millions of people she is the only Kathryn Crosby they ever heard of, even if her married name is something else now. It is her second stage-name, that's all.

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  5:29:57 PM    

A final thought on this bit of news....as some may have gathered I have always had great admiration for Bing and for his talents and for what he did for all of us on the Monterey Peninsula. Good men like Carmel "Cappy" Martin, Sal Russo, and many others worked hard to make Pro-Am a success and raised millions for Bing's charities. Mrs. Sullivan, had she been using her true married name, would not be in this parade has she not held on to Bing's name. It troubles me that she controls Bing's name and likeness and yet allowed others to do what she and her children might have considered doing as the Sinatra's have done. Yes, I know this is an old argument but I wonder what would be different had she, a young woman at the time of Bing's passing, had committed herself to perpetutaing his name, his works, and his impact on American culture.... I find those that are so charmed by Mrs. Sullivan to be an odd lot since she has no real talents to speak of as an entertainer, just her late husbands name. At his advanced age, I suspect Bing would never have divorced her is there was anything inappropriate going on under his roof, but I could understand the frequent fishing and golf trips to get away from what might have been going on. No marriage is perfect, but I think he knew that there was something going on otherwise why change his Trust 6 months before his death. That fall nearly killed him and he was never the same in many ways and I think he realized his mortality and knew his wife and possibly Dr. Sullivan would empty the till and changed his Trust accordingly. I was told that she made numerous protests to the Trust as to its structure and threatened legal action (something some of us know her for...) if Sullivan was not placed on the Board. I am glad this is all out now so that those that fall all over her as if she were Loretta Young or some REAL star would realize that Kathryn is not a Crosby anymore and hasn't been for more years. She is not a widow. She is merely Mrs. Sullivan of Genoa Nevada and it should comfort many of Bing's fans that Sullivan never lived at the house in Hillsborough. Some posters here have known about this longstanding and questionable relationship for many decades but have had to turn a blind eye for fear of offending the former widow since she controls access to Bing's personal collection of films, records, etc, and hsi name and likeness.....yet these items belong to the fans, and to American culture.. I am delighted that the Tiara has slipped a bit and the "widow" is now revealed to be a married lady in Nevada and NOT Mrs. Bing Crosby. That lie has finally come to an end. Now we can rest.....

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  5:38:47 PM    

Millions of people? She works in small theatres from time to time and appears on local and regional television once in a blue moon. But I would agree and go further and say that she uses her late husbands name to sell tickets in local theatres. It is speculation if she had an affair prior to Bing's death and if I were Bing and I suspected something going on and was in my early 70's, I would hit the road as often as I could. A public divorce would have been humiliating and out of character for him so the best thing to do is leave town and tie her up financially. And "Sully" as you call him was brought into the Trust after his death. I am certain in death he had no control beyone what was articulated in the codicils he exectuted in June of 77.

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  9:05:44 PM    

Hey! We must remember Bing cheated on Dixie. Remember Joan Caulfield? Why was it okay for him? Though I do agree about a few things mentioned here.

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  10:06:46 PM    

quote:

Originally posted by Carmela

Hey! We must remember Bing cheated on Dixie. Remember Joan Caulfield? Why was it okay for him? Though I do agree about a few things mentioned here.

Damn, Carmela you beat me to the post. I was going to bring up Joan Caulfield. Whatever Bing Crosby and his wife did in the privacy of their home is their own business.

However, I must agree that the second family with the lack of involvement in keeping Bing's image alive in the 1980s and 1990s did as much damage to Bing Crosby's reputation at Gary Crosby's book "Going My Own Way" did. I hope things will start changing now though.

Edited by - David Lobosco on 10/23/2008 10:07:23 PM

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  10:08:52 PM    

I think for many of us, just the idea of Kathryn's promoting her books and her apearances as if she were the widow of Bing Crosby,treasuring and preserving his memory and his achievements with her children, etc. and only being known as Kathryn Crosby, while really being the wife of someone we never heard of, or hardly knew of is indeed surprising--if not astonishing. Why the secrecy--if not subterfuge? Of course this is going to hit us more negatively than positively on the first bounce.

I'm reminded of "wonderful" interviews with Kathryn, in which she described her life these days with so much detail about her appearances, performances, books, children--just didn't happen to mention that she has a husband??

She probably mentioned it in her extensive presentation and interviews at the big Hoffstra event, and everyone missed it. Yeah. That's it. That's the ticket!

Kathryn knows how much Steven--and all of us care about Bing and care about her, so that's probably why she wanted Steven--and through this site, all of us to be the first to know of her remarriage. Of course she has the obvious right to conduct things exactly as she has, but there's that old word subterfuge again---just keeps poppin' up.
Dennis

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  10:15:43 PM    

quote:

Originally posted by Carmela

Hey! We must remember Bing cheated on Dixie. Remember Joan Caulfield? Why was it okay for him? Though I do agree about a few things mentioned here.

True, but you have some have always suspected that Bing got himself in a trap, perhaps emotional perhaps not, when it came to Kathryn. She would have us to believe that Bing was indecisive as to marrying her and when one steps back and looks at the facts perhaps Mary Rose was right when she described Kathryn to me. Maybe A.C. Lyles was right when he said that Kathryn wanted to marry a Prince, after all her career was going nowhere, she was going to be let go by the studio...clearly he hesitated to commit to her and to compare her to his affection and the ties that bound he and Dixie is not possible. They had a rich history of ups and downs and made it work somehow and he repented for his ways. Someone once wrote in a book or article that Dixie was the worst thing that happened to Bing because of her drinking, but I would submit that in the long run he loved Dixie and made it work and was devestated when she died and someone once said that it wasn't Dixie, it was Kathryn.

Everyone is so affraid of her, being hit with legal papers from her Son in law, which costs her nothing, and she gets paid by anyone and everyone who uses his name and none of it goes to any of Bing's charities. The restaurants are great, but her cut benefits no one but her and she has an income from the estate. How much does a 74 year old women need to support herself and her husband...and to do it using the name of her dead husband is pretty tacky, especially since he did provide well for her, the kids, and yet not one dollar has gone to any of the charities Bing had supported. She botched the best golf tournament in the nation, only at the last minute offered to return the Crosby Family Bible to Mary Rose who knew that Bing was not happy, and after 25 or so years the widow reappears (after Hofstra is informed by Sullivan of her concerns about using Bing's name for what would turn out to be a terrific program) and ready to use her late husbands name while she is living with another man who she managed to get on the Board of the Trust... the whole thing is distasteful and she still uses his name, Mrs. Bing Crosby, which is now known to be a lie which she has lived for 8 years.

And wouldn't you think she would have picked a different day to get married....October 17th, 2000. They buried the man on October 18th...perhaps that was intentional. They started shaking up together, according to sources in 1986....and she turns out to be a hypocrite when it comes to values and morality and such it would seem. All of this would make for a marvelous screenplay by Dominick Dunne I think.....sort of like the Two Mrs. Grenvilles....except you have a major star, a falling star, a lot of money and prestige and then, thanks to the age difference the protagonist comes into a lot of loot...but then realizes the deceased had her figured out all along as a spend thrift...or more?

Well, maybe one day when a few more shoes drop...all of this will come out. But I am delighted that Kathryn's "fans"....now know that her halo is not so bright. And what are they "fans" of? That she married a major star because other a few minutes of film in one decent picture, she has really nothing much to offer...I mean Ruta Lee has worked more than Mrs. Sullivan and done more good and practically nobody knows her, but then again she didn't have to marry up I guess.

Mrs. Sullivan kept it a secret for so many years to maintain some degree of importance I suppose. But it makes one wonder that she lived with her children's teacher and most impirtantly...when did that romance blossom? During her mourning after the kids had no need of his services since they were at regular schools in the mid to late 70's? Why was Dr. Sullivan hanging around when Nat was at Bellarmine or whatever school that was he was attending when Bing passed. These kids were in their late teens when Bing died and Sullivan was history.... Makes one wonder as to what was really going on under Bing's roof.

I am sure it will be a swell parade in Carson City, really swell. But I wonder if the banner on her car will say Mrs. Maurice William Sullivan or Grandstaff, or Grant, or Crosby-Sullivan... In the long run, I am glad she will be buried elsewhere...it would be an insult to have her body anywhere near his in death.

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  10:29:00 PM    

What did Mary Rose tell you? I am dying to know. AND I wonder now where ex-widow Kathryn Crosby will be buried now?

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  8:39:48 PM      

Well, it's nice to see how many of you have never done anything that could be criticized in life, because you are certainly quick to pick up the stones and throw away.

A few comments from someone who doesn't know the intimacies of the situation personally (but also doesn't feel she has the right to).

My dad established a trust two days before he died of cancer that "protected" the family's money until his daughters were 35 years old (and at the get-go, I want to say that I'm talking about a very modest amount of money, lest you think there is a frivolous heiress in your midst). Why did he choose that age? He'd managed everything financially for the family up to that point, and was horrified at leaving us so unexpectedly and, in his view, so unprepared to do it on our own. He wanted to make sure no one would take advantage of his girls (my mother included). Did that mean he mistrusted us? No, it was his way to continue protecting us after he was gone. Ironically enough, the lawyers in whose hands he placed managing the trust managed to pilfer away a good bit of it in two short years with commissions, fees and bad investments. My mom dissolved it (taking a 50% penalty on what was left to do so) and educated herself on investments and managed to grow her money to twice what it had been originally. Then she herself died of cancer 11 years after my dad had passed (both were smokers, and neither learned the lesson that they should have quit).

People can do things for reasons very different from what the wagging tongues might think. Bing very well could have been trying to protect Kathryn and his children from their own lack of experience or judgment with money, out of love. I know that's what motivated my father.

And now, following the argument on this board. I guess I have to change my name. Rats! I've been a Horn for 50 years, and I've been married to Jimenez for 22, but I still want to be a Horn. Why is that, you ask? Sure, I love Jimenez, with all my heart, but it's not who I am.

My dad signed my high school yearbook on a picture of Bing in Bells of St. Mary's that I had managed to sneak in, a Hollywood retrospective page (I was the Theme Editor and I graduated in the bicentennial year). Anyway, Deeda wrote that he was proud of me and what I had accomplished thus far. He said "I know that one day you will take another man's name, but no one could have done more to honor the name 'Horn'." Then and there, I decided that I wasn't going to change the Horn name, I kind of liked it and what it meant to me. But by the logic in your arguments vilifying Kathryn for still using Crosby, I guess I have to start calling myself Jimenez now. Why should she change her name? She's been Crosby for longer than she's been any other name, and that's probably who she feels she is...

Anyway, I started this thread because I was surprised to hear that she'd remarried eight years ago. I expected some discussion, but not judgmental and sanctimonious criticism of the woman. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions, nor am I going to crucify her for any real or imagined transgressions. I don't want to speculate that she was having an affair or gossip about anything else about the end of her days with Bing. I don't think she was, but more importantly, I know life is complicated. Bing, above all else, was a private man, Kathryn is entitled to her privacy as well.

Sue

Edited by - Sue Horn on 10/24/2008 8:45:20 PM

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  8:51:26 PM   

"JimM, I did not mean that millions of people have heard Kathryn's performances, only that millions of people have heard of the Kathryn Crosby who was Bing's wife when he was alive and who appeared with him and their kids on several TV Christmas specials and (and as some of us devoted a whole thread here to discuss recently) several Minute-Maid orange juice commercials. If they now hear of or attend one of her performances as Kathryn Crosby then they'll recognize whose performance it actually is.

Even if she is not a pinnacle of show business, anyone who can regularly attract some kind of audience is more a part of show business than I am (even though I was once a member of a locally popular jug band that was paid money TO perform). Show people have traditionally had a certain latitude when it comes to choosing what name they will perform under. And she didn't even make up "Kathryn Crosby." It really was her name, even if she may now sign her checks Sullivan.

I figure there isn't anything wrong with someone using any name that was legitimately theirs at some time in the past. This assumption of mine resembles Flag Law. Did you know that you can fly any American Flag that was an official American Flag at some time in the past. For example, if you want to fly the 37-star flag on Independence Day or Memorial Day it is totally fine and appropriate, even though the current flag has 50 stars. Incidentally, the 37-star flag was in use for most of the 1850s and was adopted after California was admitted into the Union.

On the other issues being discussed: I don't see any evidence here that Kathryn had an affair, and if she did, it's none of my business. Bing, for whatever reasons he thought necessary, left a very complex estate, that may not have seemed as beneficial to his survivors as he intended; having helped settle my late mother's affairs in the last two years, I can appreciate how much more complexity than I had to deal with might have been the bane of my existence for several years.

While I can't begin to imagine what it would have been like to have attained anything approaching Bing's fame and public regard, if I were to learn (somewhere beyond the grave) that thirty some years after I died my so-called fans where regularly critical about whether my wife was working sufficiently to keep my memory alive, I would be severely PEAVED, and might just speak to a Higher Authority about striking a couple of them (just a little) with some lightning.

Obviously, a surviving spouse can facilitate access to documents and recordings, but do we really think Bing would have wanted his family S A D D L E D with maintaining his legacy? Who knows what Bing would think of Kathryn remarrying--I certainly do not know--, but, if I WERE him, I would hope she would find some personal happiness after my passing and I would hope she would find much more to live for, in addition to whatever my memory continued to offer. -- Steve"

end quote

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  9:53:18 PM     

We understand your reticence about changing your name, Sue. "Sue Rats" would not fit your personality or appearance!

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  11:35:40 PM    

Bravo Sue! Hey Sue! If I had your last name I would have to add a Y because that would fit me! Carmela Horny. Just trying to lighten things up.

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  11:53:14 PM      

Carmela, almost every textbook that we Horn girls had in school was embellished with a "y" at the end by comedic classmates... Personally, I preferred the kids who called us "Green Hornets."

Steven, never thought of taking on Rats as a compromise solution between Horn and Jimenez. I'll have to give that some thought.

But seriously, remember where we are and that we represent Bing's fans. I hope he would enjoy taking part in some of the discussions on this board. What would Bing think of the newly colorized "Holiday Inn", for example? Would he confirm that the alternate take that none can find is really not an alternate take at all? Would he be able to fill in some additional entries in Malcolm's well-researched diary?

One thread I doubt he'd have anything to say about is this one.

Sue

Edited by - Sue Horn on 10/24/2008 11:54:28 PM

Posted - 10/25/2008 :  11:11:19 AM    

From all outward appearances- the New York Shows, Mary's interactions, etc. most of the family, which surely is aware of all the details, appears okay with this.

Nonetheless, some family feedback- (read Howard here) would go a long way in quelling some of this firestorm.

Posted - 10/25/2008 :  9:23:17 PM    

From an insider I know. They said Kathryn started affair when Bing was alive. Hey! It doesn't matter and no one should cast stones! She was always good to Bing's fans and I think she really loved Bing. Bing was getting older and maybe Kathryn was thinking of her future and didn't want to be alone. Okay, I know it doesn't make it right but her private life is her business. Bing was very happy with Kathryn and had 3 Beautiful children and that's what matters.

Posted - 10/25/2008 :  10:23:11 PM    

There has been so much speculation and idle gossip set forth as fact on this thread I would like to address some of those things (really most of it by one person; it seems most have been very measured and fair in their postings). Like Jim, and now David, I have heard many things from sources “very close to the Crosby family.” But, my sources paint an entirely different picture than the one they do. So, I’d like to set a few things straight as I understand them.

1. I think it’s important to remember that Mary, Nathaniel and Harry visit this website, and have since its early years. I would imagine that spreading malicious gossip about their mother is NOT helping how they view some fans, which might affect how quickly they’ll roll out products to those same ‘fans’.

2. In March 2007, after some people speculated that Bing “punished” Kathryn by changing his Will and putting everything in Trust, I obtained a copy of Bing’s Will from the Probate Division of the California Superior Court in San Mateo County. I have never seen the Trust. Bing signed the Will on June 27, 1977 (he had been through two near death experiences, one as recent as March. I'm sure that got him to put his things in order). He left a few cash bequests. Among those, to Kathryn he left $150,000--by far the largest. There were a few others to two sisters, including Mary Rose, and some nieces all in the range of $10,000-$15,000. Also some to his longtime friends and business associates, Leo Lynn and Basil Grillo. He specifically “failed to provide for any child of mine.” All of his personal property, paintings, works of art, cars, furnishings, etc., went to Kathryn--no other bequests. The entire remainder of his estate was placed in the Harry L. Crosby Trust. His funeral instructions in the Will specifically state that only Kathryn and the children were to attend. He intentionally excluded his brothers and sisters and dear friends. It was only thanks to Kathryn that they were included.

3. Regarding why he put the remainder of his Estate in Trust, as a lawyer I know that large estates should always be placed in trusts to avoid huge estate taxes and probate. With a trust, the beneficiaries get their bequests almost immediately. With probate, it could be years. Also, the Will is a matter of public record, whereas the Trust can be kept private. We all know Bing was a very private man. Therefore, he had any number of reasons to put his estate in a trust, the least of which would seem to be that he thought his wife was cheating on him. In fact, given his vast wealth, he would have been crazy not to put it in a trust.

4. Kathryn’s children support their mother and her marriage. They join her at public events whenever possible and are very proud of her. I think, frankly, that her marriage is none of our business. I also think she kept it secret in order to keep people from speculating about her life. Bing was very private and she learned from him.

5. Kathryn does not charge for HER appearances, but her technician and musical accompanist do get paid when they travel with her. Steve, I can only say that Ruth Prigozy seemed quite shocked when I asked her if Kathryn had charged for Hofstra and was absolutely adamant that she has never charged for her appearances. Ruth is also at most, if not all, of Kathryn’s NY area appearances.

6. Kathryn is no longer in charge of Bing Crosby Enterprises and has not been for a number of years. Kathryn’s attorneys and BCE’s attorneys are not the same firm.

7. The Crosby family bible was collected by Bob Crosby, not Mary Rose. Before the auction, Kathryn offered it to Bing’s siblings and no one was interested in it until it was listed as an auction item. Then, Bob called Kathryn and said “I’ve changed my mind.” When he came to pick it up, Kathryn also gave him additional items. Kathryn’s lifelong friend was a witness to Bob’s visit and told the story, NOT Kathryn.

8. Bill Sullivan was not the children’s “tutor.” He has a PhD in Education and developed and wrote about learning methods. Bing and Kathryn used his programs to teach their children and also to learn languages themselves. He was not a live-in tutor.

9. Kathryn extremely loyal. She took care of Bing’s mother ‘til her dying day. She took care of Rosemary Clooney. She took care of Gary Crosby after his heart surgery. She went to Everett Crosby when he was dying (Bing went in the other direction, to Hawaii). She took care of Nathaniel’s baby nurse while she was dying of cancer. She’s still friends with Dolores Hope and visits with her often. And she engenders loyalty—the Fishers stayed for years, left because they got bored, and then came back again. The baby nurse was there until she died. The same housekeeper Kathryn had at Hillsborough when Bing was alive, is still there, 30 years later. In fact, she is the only help that Kathryn, a very rich woman, has right now.

10. After marrying Bing, Kathryn kept working, continued through nursing school despite being married to the richest man in Hollywood (when she took her nursing Boards, she scored first in the Los Angeles area and third in the State of California), was a substitute teacher in her kids’ schools, home schooled her kids and the local kids when the family was in Mexico several months of the year, and loved to tour in plays despite Bing’s protest.

11. If you look at pictures from many different years, she’s often wearing the same clothes. The suit she was wearing in the picture of Bing and Kathryn leaving the hospital after his fall is the same suit she wore on a Christmas Special a year or two before. The dress she wore in the 50th Anniversary special (when he fell) is the same dress she wore on stage in The Guardsman many years before. For crying out loud, today she takes her photos to WalMart for developing. My point is that I don’t think Bing was concerned, as has been speculated, that “his wife and Dr. Sullivan would empty the till.”

12. Gary Giddins has no recollection of having ever spoken to Jim, let alone about “where the money went.”

13. The BingCrosby.com website has no record of any e-mail from Jim and all email inquiries are saved in a database.

14. I note that David’s friend doesn’t even say the affair began before Bing died. He says Kathryn kept in touch with Dr. Sullivan. He even says they began living together in Nevada in 1986, nine years after Bing died. Why would they have waited so long?

15. Gossip from Bing’s relatives, sisters, nephews, etc. about his marriage is not convincing to me. Who knows what motivates them or what axe they have to grind. Who really knows what goes on in someone elses marriage. Until Kathryn, Mary, Nathaniel or Harry confirm these sleezy, gossipy rumors, I’ll see them as just that. To the contrary, the children support her mother and are glad she is happy. I know others agree with me in this position.

I think that’s all I want to get off my chest for now, unless some other baseless accusations are posted.

Posted - 10/25/2008 :  11:28:27 PM    

quote:

Originally posted by Sally

There has been so much speculation and idle gossip set forth as fact on this thread I would like to address some of those things (really most of it by one person; it seems most have been very measured and fair in their postings). Like Jim, and now David, I have heard many things from sources “very close to the Crosby family.” But, my sources paint an entirely different picture than the one they do. So, I’d like to set a few things straight as I understand them....

Sally, thanks for your effective "truth squad" report on these issues.

Posted - 10/25/2008 :  11:51:24 PM    

Nice post Sally. Well presented. No rambling or incomplete thoughts and you signed your name accepting responsibility for its content and obvious belief in your reliably source of information. Hopefully, you have restored some good sense to this thread and maybe even enlightened some with a more accurate account of the FACTS.

Posted - 10/26/2008 :  02:11:50 AM     

Time magazine of 28 January 1966 did a story on Maurice William Sullivan and the reading program he developed. Perhaps this was where the Crosbys read of his work and decided to hire him to help improve their kids' reading skills. According to Time, Sullivan was born in 1926, he served in the Marines during World War II where he taught German to U.S. troops. After the war he earned numerous degrees (B.A. and M.A. in English at Yale, Ph.D. in linguistics at Madrid, B.A. in Spanish at Puerto Rico, M.A. in Spanish at Middlebury). In the 1950s he taught and did research in reading at Hollins College in Virginia. In the '60s he moved to Stanford University. He left Stanford, moved to the Santa Cruz mountains of California, where he developed a series of books that formed the basis of the "Sullivan Reading Program." His program was marketed by a company he founded called Sullivan Associates of Menlo Park, California.

According to the Eric Educational Database:

"The Sullivan Reading Program is designed to teach reading, with the focus on basic skills, to children beginning in kindergarten and continuing through grade 3. It is also used in remedial reading instruction for children and adults of all ages. The two basic series of materials are the Programmed Reading series and the Sullivan Reading Program, accompanied by many supplementary materials."

I wonder if Dr. Sullivan taught Kathryn and Bing to play chess? In 1963 he published a book called, "A Programmed Introduction to the Game of Chess," which was republished in 1972. His latest book was published in 1999, Second Chance: If Only I Had It All to Do Over Again, Knowing What I Know Now and was illustrated by Mrs. Crosby. His most recent job title is listed as "trustee" of the "Sullivan / Crosby Trust."

Posted - 10/26/2008 :  02:20:51 AM      

Jane, signing your name "Sally" tells us nothing more than signing it "Jim," except perhaps a difference in gender. Sally is really the flip side of Jim. Both have their feet planted rigidly in the ground but on opposite sides. Apparently the Nevada Appeal revelation Oct. 14 that Mrs. Crosby remarried was a slip of the tongue. The Carson City Times interviewed Mrs. Crosby and reported Oct. 24 that she had never remarried. Someone needs to communicate with Mrs. Crosby that "her secret is no secret anymore" so she does not find herself continuing to tell the world what it now knows is not true.

Posted - 10/26/2008 :  08:17:36 AM    

What I have always loved about this site and discussion board is nearly nothing is off limits. Steve Lewis has done more for Bing Crosby fans than anyone with this site. We can debate about Bing Crosby's treatment of his first children or his alleged affair with Joan Caulfield. No other site is like that. If Bing Crosby is not off limits, then Kathryn Crosby certainly should not be either.

Dixie Lee Crosby has been dead now 56 years and people still compare Kathryn to Dixie. Things will never change. Whatever went on in the Crosby household will never be known, nor is it any of our business. However, to discuss it and debate it is healthy. There are obviously two camps here at work, and personally I think both have valid points. We will never really know, but I am thankful for this site where we can discuss our thoughts openly, and not worry or "tiptoe around" things just because there is a chance someone "higher up" in the Crosby family will read it.

Edited by - David Lobosco on 10/26/2008 08:19:15 AM

Posted - 10/26/2008 :  09:23:14 AM    

Actually Steven I wasn't referencing Jim’s postings in particular. But since you mentioned it, I agree Sally and Jim are on the opposite sides of this issue, I do think Sally as a practicing lawyer and having an official copy of Bing's will spoke with authority on its contents (reference David's post.) Her understanding as a lawyer of the usually purposes of a trust is from her professional knowledge. Her information on the ways of Kathryn Crosby has been well researched and much of her information has come from Kathryn and family not long circulating rumors. Her information regarding Kathryn and the issue of whether she asked for payment at Hofstra was directly from Ruth Prizogy, not from someone Ruth supposedly spoke to. Did you speak to Ruth personally for your information on the same issue? (I really don't know.) On whether Kathryn gets paid for her performances and who on her staff may get paid when she performs is directly from her public relation team. Again not based on rumors or diluted information. I could go and on about the meticulous work Sally devotes to her "briefs" but do I really need to?



I recognize there is a long history with Bing’s first and extended family and Kathryn. And I think that is really the heart of this thread. What we know is Kathryn lived with Dr. Sullivan since 1986 in Nevada, married in 2000 and did not publicize the marriage and continued to use the Crosby name. (There’s always been some confusion as to how Dr. Sullivan entered the Crosby home and it was actually through Bing. Kathryn was given his name as someone with reading programs to help the children with early education. But it was Bing who met him and sought his help with the children.) Jim appears to be saying Kathryn's actions concerning her marriage and her use of the Crosby name should make us all angry and feel betrayed. He must be disappointed that there are those of us who regard the information as “none of our business” and recognize her right to keep “her marriage private” and continuing to use her dead husband’s famous name is again her decision to do. And we continue to wish her well.

And I agree with David, this is a great site.

Posted - 10/26/2008 :  12:43:54 PM    

While Kathryn's current marital status may be open to question her status as Bing's WIDOW is not.

That she is currently promoting Bing's legacy is also beyond dispute and should be appreciated by ALL Crosby fans.